Wednesday, July 1, 2009

Incest - Why I hate it and why it should be legal

Whilst I am most definitely an ardent fan, anime culture is nevertheless rife with many weird and wacky things that will forever befuddle and disgusts me, such as moe, tentacle rape and loli. Another source of disgust, and the topic of today's post, is incest.

For reasons I will never understand, there is a buttload of incest, either implied or outright in many anime and manga that I otherwise enjoy. And in response, I must ask -as I do so often-;

WTF Japan?

There are like what, thousands of people that we will meet throughout our lifetime, and none of them are more attractive then our kid sister!? What the hell?? And while I'm on that note, why is the vast majority of incest (or at least, incestuous desire) that I see, between an older male and his underage sister?

Seriously Japan, that's just messed up. Not only can the dude find no one outside his own family, but he's a pedophile as well??? Is everyone in your country restrained with steel chains everytime their in the vicinity of their siblings!?

And so I must once again ask, as I ever do in vain, please please please come up with a fetish that's actually hot. You screwed up with mecha musume, you screwed up with rape, you screwed up with moe and you screwed up with incest. You have hundreds of mangaka and anime directors in your country! Surely but one amongst them can finally come up with a fetish that won't make me feel like punching myself!

That said however, I believe this is now as good a time as any to segue to the other point I wanted to make regarding this lovely topic.

Whilst I am frankly disgusted with the fetishisisation of incest in anime, I do strongly believe that the criminalization of incestuous relationships between consenting adults is wrong.

Before you read further, you should know two things;

a) I am writing this argument from a legal perspective. I can't give a rat's ass about the morality of the issue, what irks me is that the current laws regarding incest are unfair from a legal standpoint.

b) The law I reference is Australian law, particularly in the state of New South Wales. The law in your country may or may not be similar.

As of this writing, incest is illegal in New South Wales, pursuant to s78A of the Crimes Act 1900 (NSW). The statute currently states:

78A Incest

(1) Any person who has sexual intercourse with a close family member who is of or above the age of 16 years is liable to imprisonment for 8 years.
(2) For the purposes of this section, a "close family member" is a parent, son, daughter, sibling (including a half-brother or half-sister), grandparent or grandchild, being such a family member from birth.
So why exactly is this unfair? Because the rationale for this law is inconsistent with other forms of sexual offense laws in Australia. Summarised, the reasoning for s78A comes in two forms; incest is inherently immoral, and incestuous sex produces babies who suffer a higher chance of physical or mental retardation.

In regards to the immorality argument; it is not the role of government to be our moral guardian and to legislate accordingly. Whilst morality is deeply rooted in our legal system, acts are made illegal not because they are 'immoral', but because the act causes actual harm or loss to either the person doing the act, or to another person.

Incest however, as long as it is consensual, causes neither harm nor loss to any of the participating parties.

The second argument, completely fails to rationalize s78A in any conceivable way. s78A as it stands, outlaws the act of incestuous sex, not the results of the act. Put simply, if I were to bang my hypothetical sister, we'd be criminals, regardless of whether a child is borne.

Furthermore, the logical conclusion of the retarded child argument should lead to the outlawing of sex for anyone suffering from retardation, diseases or other negative traits that can be genetically inherited by their children. This is obviously not the case and rightly so. Similarly, incestuous couples should not be held to the double standard of this argument.

In conclusion, there is no reasonable argument as to why incest should be illegal. It is an unfair law that is bigoted and condescending, and should be repealed with all due haste.

This of course doesn't change the fact that I feel like kicking someone in the face everytime I see incest in my anime.


  1. You posted about two completely different topics. Loli/Shota and actual incest. I do agree that many laws made in countries are bigoted and condescending. It'll be more like that with Western influences and ethnocide.

  2. Finding a "normal fetish" is hard by definition.

  3. Regarding incest in Anime, it is more harmful than porn.

    Regarding the incest in moral value, it is definitely wrong. Now the question we need to ask ourselves what is our moral value. That very much is like asking what is our family value. Do we have moral value?

  4. But even if you're looking at it from the moral standpoint... where did this moral even come from. As little as 200 years ago, it was perfectly fine and almost no-one had a problem with it. Yet within the last few centuries, some random people, just randomly got together, and came up with a random set of random values. "Its wrong because its wrong, I can't explain why its wrong, but I say its wrong" - that basically is what all of this moral crap is, just that, crap.

    Not that I support or oppose anything, but just saying :p

  5. ROFL What a...detailed type of serious posting. XDDDDDDDDDDD

    Yeah...the incest fetish in anime/manga is have NO EXPLAINATION FOR IT. I even remebered one hentai animanga game about raping your already pregnant younger sister who you previously impregnate, like WTF SERIOUSLY ARGGGGGHHHHHHHhksdjsdhahsd3764823748737487shfashf

  6. are damn right. WHERE ARE THE OLDER SISTERS X YOUNGER BROTHERS??!!!!!!!! It's usually older brother x younger sister. =__=

  7. the hottness of a fetish differs from person to person. other's don't even think fetishes are decent.
    so if ever you'll get your wish of seeing a hott fetish, it's still out of bias or preferences ^^;

    but interesting topic by the way. I don't exactly like the incests in anime. ^^;

  8. interesting about the law side of things, I'm not really sure what the laws for it here are like, but I'm not particularly interested either. I guess laws being made just for immoral acts are messed up but this is the world we live in, and I doubt the laws will do anything but get worse over time. I find incest disturbing, especially in anime, or in the case of twins like Rin & Len, the Vocaloids. I just don't understand the appeal of a guy screwing his sister, or any blood relation for that matter. There's enough people in this world to find someone better

  9. Incest itself is wrong, I don't approve. It's downright immoral.

    Take a look at KissxSis. How the hell is that even LEGAL?

    @Anna Sagara:

  10. @ Jura
    Actually no, whilst I do complain about the overabundance of loli in anime incest, I did keep in mind to keep both topics separate. But yeah, the laws as of current are indeed silly.

    @ Baka Raptor
    Bah! You and your technicalities!

    @ Willie
    Yes it is :P

    @ Leon
    A fair enough opinion. Nonetheless, morals are subjective constructs, and laws should not be based on morals which are variable and subject to change.

    @ Michael
    Ahh, moral relativity is a wonderful thing isn't it? ^^

    @ Anna
    Oh Japan, you so good at blowing my mind -_-

    @ Sapphire
    Bah! My fetishes are objectively better! Because I say so!

    @ Persocom
    Huh? Lin and Ren are in bed with each other too? Jesus christ... -_-

    @ Konadora
    However, those are your morals and opinions; others might not necessarily share them. It is because of that reason that I argue it is wrong to legislate against incest.

  11. Moral values are what human differential from animal. People may look up to their parents or siblings as good example and in future look for partners of such good quality. Incest definitely a no no ~ 'unacceptable' to my content. There are so people in this world, why tunnel vision only to your family members? Oop! Sorry for the nagging!

  12. I'm so sorry Snark, for saying about that :( Maybe I should just shut up about anything gross I have encountered/known before.

    BTW I am so sad. My PC has very serious virus, I'm using someone's laptop now. Sigh. I can't work on anything. -_- T_T

  13. Leather, thigh-highs, twintails, meganekko, nekomimi, those don't cut it? Okay >.<
    Kudos to you though, for being against incest itself but being able to unbiasedly go against the legalities of the subject.
    Excellent perception there, imho.

    Still, the deciding factors of why a person likes another isn't quite affected the progressively more attractive people one meets in a lifetime.
    If you say "There are thousands of people that we will meet throughout our lifetime, and none of them are more attractive than our kid sister?" it is quite equivalent to saying "There are thousands of people that we will meet throughout our lifetime, and none of them are more attractive than our spouse?" Some people have spouses that you might not think are the most attractive people ever. How did they get together? Why aren't you attracted to them?

    Maybe they were childhood friends, and were fascinated with one another at a young, impressionable age. If not forgotten, such strong feelings at a young age can become absolute, as at first they were irrational in nature. To me, consensual incest is ultimately a man and a woman who love one another.

    Woh, that got drawn out. I shouldn't be nitpicking on your one line.
    To each his own boat, really.
    Still, you've applause from me :3

  14. The root of incest in anime can be traced back to Cream Lemon back in the mid and late eighties, it was a pretty big deal then, probably one of the first few hentai anime I know of. Now, I understand everything you said and I could have taken any side based on the line of thinking I choose to embrace. On one hand, why is the kid sister always more attractive than anyone else? Not necessarily more attractive, but perhaps easy access? After all, you live in the same house? And there are more chances for "accident" to happen? The act of forbidden love sells, so let me put together the formula:
    Forbidden love + loli sister + convenient accident = profit. I will take that over K-On! any day.

    Now on the legal ground, on the surface it seems the rules are made to threaten and discourage the act of incest? I don't know if there is any scientific proof but I remember hearing something higher rate of birth defect?

  15. @ Dennis
    Morality is indeed a distinguishing factor between humans and animals. However, that doesn't change the fact that they are inherently subjective, and therefore should not be the basis of legislation.

    @ Anna
    Geez that sucks hard >_< Any idea when it'll be repaired?

    @ Ningyo
    Excellent. Being an egomaniac, I draw sustenance from the applause of others. Yours has contributed greatly to my power.

    @ Wolfheinreich
    Yeah, children borne out of incest are statistically more likely to suffer a birth defect.

    However, no other group is outlawed from having sex on the basis that the child might suffer defects or inherit diseases. Therefore, my argument is that laws against incest are inconsistent with the rest of the criminal legal system.

  16. much Law Talk
    Anyways...heres my turn:

    Incest is illegal in Germany aswell and as far as I know for the same Child might have a birthdefect reason as you guys.
    You are right that derivated from this logic all other people with gene defects shouldnt be allowed to have children due to the higher chance of a birthdefect.

    Here is where Morals come into play: Incest is seen as a bad thing by the public so everyones alright with outlawing it.
    People with Genedefects on the other hand are by general consensus pitied and they would never forbid them to take away that "little joy" they have left in their life.That would be cruel after all right?
    That the result is the same disabled child is of no interest to them.They kept their face with punishing boys that screw their sister and supporting the poor disabled man that wants to have a daughter.

    Is it a travesty?Yes,but you can sleep good at night because you did the "right" thing.

    As far as I know the Netherlands approve of Incest.If you ever move there to bang you hypothetical sister be sure to drop by my place.Its close to the border :D

    PS: Doctors over here are advising people with heavy defects to NOT have children due to its dangers but its your choice in the end.

    Why are older guys banging their younger sister?
    Its just 2 fetishes combined for even heavier damage Loli + Incest

    I actually think that all those guys jerking off to Incest Doujin are just attracted to it cause its one of those forbidden acts.Theyd stay as limp as my mothers french fries if they encountered such a situation in real life

  17. The thing about laws is that sometimes they're just mad to stop someone from doing a specific thing, regardless as to if it's condescending to other laws or not. But no one says anything because, well, it'd take some serious guts to call the senate and say "Incest should be legal because..."

    BTW, I always wonder what kind of person has the absence of pride it takes to make incestuous anime like that. Can you imagine creators all sitting in a room together and discussing it? Disturbing.

  18. Wow! There are actually countries that approves of incest? o_0!

    "I actually think that all those guys jerking off to Incest Doujin are just attracted to it cause its one of those forbidden acts.Theyd stay as limp as my mothers french fries if they encountered such a situation in real life" - Blowfish
    That statement basically explains why all the weird stuffs going on in animes nowadays.
    *Nods head in total agreement*

    I once had a friend read a incest manga. And he threw up. He never dared to get any manga from me ever since. Lol!
    Hope I didn't ashamed myself too much... -.-"

  19. Interesting post. ^ ^

    I don't particularly mind incest in anime/manga as long as it's kept within the same generation (siblings). My favorite manga ever is Angel Sanctuary, and it really is the incestuous love that drives it. Still, I think incest is wrong, but that's why it makes such an interesting story. Nothing more enticing than forbidden love.

    On the other hand, incest that is all about imoutos or onee-chans... not so much my thing.

    Lastly, I agree that incest should be legal for the exact reasons you posted.

  20. Hmm... I only see incest in anime as some kind of impact in the storyline, for shock value and such. It can be quite interesting to watch if done right. I actually hated one of the anime I watched recently that had an incest ending... Mostly because they barely developed it and just suddenly slapped the viewers' faces out of nowhere.

    The incest in Futurama was hilarious though :P

    As for real life incest... I have heard a friend who claimed he's seen offsprings of incest. He said it was not a pretty sight.

    @konadora: I don't think they're related by blood in KissXSis

  21. This comment has been removed by the author.

  22. I hate incest as well :D its kind of forbidden love =_=

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  37. I hate Incest so much.I wish it never was in anime or in real life